Wot who is isam

Is it only that it would explain some of the special properties of Slayer or are there, eg mythological parallels?

My take on the creation of Slayer is that it's an example of how some things are more powerful in TAR. Also, when Perrin describes their scent as cold and inhuman it reminds me of the consequences of entering TAR in the flesh that the WOs warn about.

I figured it was something similar to what was done to the resurrected Forsaken - except without the previous occupant being removed, and done in TAR to make that effective with added cookies.

I do like the idea that Luc was turned as its hard to beleive him being such a nasty piece of work was never remarked upon when people remember him. Given that he doesn't seem to channel would 13x13 work? Perhaps he was corrupted in another way though we've seem similar with Aridhol after all. Later in the cycle, they hide the Sidhe from the humans the Gael. Luc becomes "all the Lucs" since the first time he became a Hero and joins the other Heroes.

The evil Luc, turned to the Shadow or corrupted by Isam's soul , is only a very small facet of a global Hero personality dedicated to the Light, and Isam's soul is overwhelmed by the whole, or in his body in the RW, he isn't affected.. Luc's eternal soul would be freed, Isam would die. It could be the opposite, or some other rules. I'm giving this more as an example of possible mechanisms.

We could have a situation also where Slayer is in TAR doing something dire, in the middle of the endgame. Isam is temporarily only a man again, caught in TAR in the flesh with no way out until Luc's soul is back. Perrin gives him the so-called "final death", cutting the Slayer bond and freeing Luc's Hero soul. A Luc POV during the "battle of Heroes" would be enough to give us hints of what is happening, reveal Gitara's foretelling.

The removal of the Bore might correspond to that moment when the Horn is sounded. Rand might need to be dead, and have his full TAR powers and knowledge of the "All the Dragons" to do the deed. This refers to either of two things, IMO. This is either Shai'tan being able to seize "all of Rand" ie: his soul because of his bond to Moridin, thus it needs to be cut so Rand can die safely. I tend to think it's the first, by the way, but I'm also convinced Rand will have to face Shai'tan in death too, in his domain, and the Horn is the key to free him, because the real meaning of its etching is "Shai'tan is no bar to my call".

I think the Chosen gave us a clue the way they reacted to Moridin's name. They either reacted thinking him a fool or extremely arrogant. It's before they learn Death itself gave him the name What "dire thing" Slayer may be doing in the endgame? The arrow flies, the Horn is sounded, Rand is called to the real world, and so is Luc.

Perrin kills Isam. RJ dug in that stuff for sure. It got confirmed by TGS. It's a cycle representing levels of initiation. Orpheus as The Fisher sends you through the cycle. You notably meet the Mother Goddess in various forms. First she's autumnal Demeter as the Grim Reaper, then she is her daughter Kore represented with a raven on her shoulder, and a lit torch in her hand. You take the poison that seems to be Shadar Logoth in WOT and face the Lord and Lady of Death this is Persephone and Hades, but their representation is more dire than we're used to in the more mundane versions of Greek myths, devilish than in the lighter representations of the myths.

At the end of the initiation process the Goddess is shown as The Empress Demeter in full solar glory who makes things grow and offspring be born, and the God is now summer Appollo. It's all fairly complicated not all scholars agree on interpretation of the cycle either and describing it from memory I probably have a few things wrong.

But you see the path of Tuon in it Mat and her are now in their "Gods of fate" phase, but already on the threshold of going through a very dark phase where they might doom the light, which fits with Tuon's current plans. Then they emerge in a much brighter phase.. Nitpick: the series never confirmed them as twins.

This is one of those things we all think we've been told and which in fact arose with the theory that Elayne's twins are Shivan and Calian which doesn't make that much sense, Elayne's son would come too late to herald destruction and the birth of something new. Mat spoke of them only as brother and sister, which relationship they don't necessarily have while incarnated.

Shivan the Hunter is the herald of the end of an Age and of the birth of a new one. He wears a black mask. She's not the herald, it's her brother who is. There was another interesting theory that Ba'alzamon when he wore his black mask in TGH was mascarading as Shivan - herald of the end of the Age, and that his love of Red and Black is tied to Shivan and Calian somehow. Replace "made in TAR" by "transmigrating the soul of a just killed Hero of the Horn - who now rightly would belong in TAR, so his captured soul shares the living body of Isam", and it's essentially the same theory and motifs.

The difference is only in the way it relates to TAR. Turned to the Shadow, or corrupted by sharing a mind with Isam's soul, it doesn't seem likely Luc was in any way a "nasty piece of work". It would have been remarked on. I base my notion maybe Luc is a latent channeler aka a "learner" on his sister, as far as we know is real and full one, gave birth to Rand. Having the latent ability may be enough to be turned to the Shadow.

I like my Red Veils hypothesis ie: that the Red Veils captured him and had him turned to the Shadow because it would mirror Tigraine who went to become a Black Veiled Maiden. That inverts the masks of Shivan and Calian As I said originally, I believe Slayer is mostly an experiment to see if a Hero of the Horn could be controlled that way.

A prototype for what the Shadow plans to do to Rand. I think Rand-Moridin are already like Slayer, it only requires Rand to die to complete the making. Moridin has to die first to prevent it. What would be interesting is if Moridin dying first would place his soul in Rand's body instead and prevents the "final death" he so wants to get.

Then Rand's death would release his soul Those seem to be a special category of returning souls, legendary warriors. No gleeman is likely to win fame and fortune with the Luc and Isam story, and what would they have been doing at Falme, sticking poisoned knives in people on both sides?

There should be some Heroes of the Horn resurrected for Tarmon Gai'don, Lan and Galad would be good candidates and we know Birgitte's partner Gaidal Cain is around somewhere; with the weird temporal connection between TAR and the waking world he could be old enough. The core problem with the "Luc was turned" theory is the suggestion that Gitara sent him to the Blight. I find it inconcievable she would do that without a Foretelling and equally inconceivable that a Foretelling would have guided her to create a minor DO servant.

So, did RJ insert that rumor just to fool me? It didn't fool any of the rest of you. The stepping in and out is part of the mechanism for his change.

Thanks Dom - interesting as always. I really like the ideas behind this, particularly the inversion of the masks. I hope this turns out to be right. Much like the makers of the Horn found a way to "control" the Heroes to serve a purpose. We can tell within a few months how old Gaidal is using Steven Cooper's chronology. That gives us two option's, as RJ contradicted himself slightly on this. Once he said the soul joined the body at fetal stage, another time he said it joined the body at the moment of conception.

Either way, "Gaidal" either was conceived, or reached the proper fetal stage, between Amadaine 22 June 10 the day after his last on screen appearance and Maighdal 14 August 16 NE the day before Birgitte said she has not seen him in TAR for some time. Perception of time while in TAR is very different from the real world.

You may think you spent minutes there when it's been hours in the real world, and the reverse. But time never goes backward. Birgitte had no idea if she last seen Gaidal days, months or years ago. If was but a few weeks. RJ has even confirmed Gaidal wasn't born to be involved in the LB he said "he would sit this one out" , that he got spun out by the Wheel for a post TG purpose.

That's because you assume too much her foretelling was transparent. Most aren't. IMO there's not two foretelling, there's only one, sending Tigraine to the Waste and Luc to the High Passes, and Gitara had no idea why, beside that it was important. Gitara would have told Tamra if she knew or even suspected that Tigraine was sent away to become the DR's mother. She sent Tigraine first, and Luc later, probably to make it believable he had gone to look for his sister. One is that Gitara had a foretelling to send Luc away to the High Passes.

The first main variant cover the hypothesis that The Wheel wanted Luc away not to be there with Andor's armies when Tigraine returned as a Maiden, perhaps so he didn't find and raised Rand. The second variant cover purposes for the fact Luc had to be captured by the Shadow. Slayer has an unwitting positive role to play. A third variant is that Luc's purpose was to kill Janduin.

The second main theory involve no foretelling. Gitara willingly sent Luc to his death in the Blight because he suspected she was behind Tigraine's disappearance and he started to pester her with too many questions. There's only so much word twisting an AS can do.

In short, it's a variation on what happened to Gawyn. Elaida got fed up of his questions about Elayne and him being a nuisance with his Younglings, and she had Galina arrange for his death by the Shaido the WT knew were between Cairhien and the WT at the time. Sevanna betrayed Galina and tried to capture Rand instead.

I take your word for it, I didn't check Gaidal Cain in the interviews. Having been told by Gitara Moroso via a Foretelling that disaster would engulf Andor and its people if she did not join the Maidens of the Spear, Tigraine travels to the Aiel Waste in secret. It's a characteristic of TAR. I guess time too is a reflection there, and for some reason it seems to fluctuate a lot.

It might be perfectly possible to slow things down and accelerate them at will in TAR, but unless Will is applied to that purpose, we know it's something else that determines how time flows in TAR RJ said there's a certain randomness to it but it's constant for a bunch of people together in TAR at the same time. Time in Tel'aran'rhiod and the real world run at different rates, but it never runs backwards.

You may spend an hour in Tel'aran'rhiod, and a day has passed when you get back, or you may spend a day, and an hour has passed when you get back, but you'll never go in on Tuesday and come back on Monday. There is more to do to keep the Pattern on course than the Last Battle. Note: this one was about "how come Gaidal has been reborn since it's obvious he will be too old to fight in the LB for at least 15 years? There was another one I seem to remember where RJ said something like "I'm afraid Gaidal will have to sit this one the LB out", but it's not one the Terez has collected.

I'll try to look into my old files to see if I have a source for it, this might have been from a Wotmania poster signing reports - a few of those have been lost. But he's implied much the same in the quote above anyway. Brandon has also confirmed Gaidal is reborn now. At some point he's reported as having implied we've even seen him, but it was noted rather fast we've not met any baby fitting RJ's rather specific guidelines.

I've not looked into the details of the back story of Luc in some time, no. I mis-remembered some of the old theories, obviously. It must have been about sending Luc away ahead of Tigraine to get him out of the way first, so he didn't try to go after her, then sending Tigraine when Gitara was sure Luc was gone and not too soon so it looked too suspicious.

Old stuff really, I've not discussed these issues in a very in a long time. Maybe Gitara just said to Luc: "Go take a hike. If Luc resembled Gawyn when he was the same age, then this would be a perfectly believable explanation. It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons! The Making of Slayer. Cabadrin Youngling. November in A Memory of Light. Interesting, that. Would it have any significance, though?

For some unknown reason some whispered seeking fame Luc agreed to go. In the Blight, Luc met Isam. Somehow, the two were joined in a double body, Slayer. For some unknown reason, Slayer went to work for the DO. Slayer has served the DO faithfully ever since. Then there is a handful of loose threads, but no one cares about those. Luc and Isam met in the Blight.

Seeking to learn more about what the Pattern needed from them, they went to the Finns, who gave them three cryptic answers and granted them three whishes: - Immunity from any oath the DO might require - Whatever else they most needed for their joint quest - Safe return to their own world Beware what you wish for.

The Finns will have savoured the emotions when Luc and Isam realized how the Finns had fulfilled their wish.

The DO gave him powers to increase his usefulness. And Luc volunteered, Gitara could not have forced him. Has any other character in fiction made a sacrifice like this? For now he is biding his time, maintaining his cover and sabotaging the Shadow's effort when he is confident he can get away with it.

And, in his spare time, harvesting wolf souls to build his own Darkhound army for Tarmon Gai'don. At some point I hope Slayer will have the opportunity to kill Shaidar Haran, the closest anyone of the Pattern can come to kill the DO. He has earned that right. We do not know the timing, possibly Slayer was sent after the Gray Men failed to kill Fain, with Trollocs to deal with Fain's Whitecloak guards.

The Trollocs may also have been sent to harrass Two Rivers on the remote chance this would attract or at least distract Rand, or just to comply with Fain's request for assistance to keep him unsuspecting. Perrins's arrival changed everything, killing him had been a priority since the Darkfriend social TGH prologue.

He couldn't just leave, Verin might mention Lord Luc and his timely advice in her next rapport, he had to play the dilettante Hunter, full of unhelpful help, to make Verin discount the early praise as naive. Necessary, but it must have rankled to see the villagers turn to Perrin. Isam appears confused about what had happened AMOL prologue , he may not have understod Luc's actions. We know that the passive person can see and hear what the active person is doing, and sense emotions, but we do not know if Luc and Isam share thoughts and memories.

And he may have faced contradictory orders at the time, Ishamael was killed just a few days before the Whitecloaks arrived in Two Rivers. Moridin is masked to test Slayer's loyalty, too, a test Luc passes because he, too, is confident Rand is invulnerable. Note Moridin's ham acting. Luc is good, though, his cover persona, honed during nearly thirty hard years to the point of schizofrenia, is designed to be laconic: I kill, why would I care who dies not a quote.

Min, too, Luc had his miserable life while Rand could live cosily with this lovely young woman. He was in no shape to deal with Perrin, so it may have been sensing Masema that drew him to the camp - Masema had been one of the soldiers guarding the knife and the Horn in Cairhien, he could be a Shadar Logoth carrier, certainly Masema's followers resemble Fain's Whitecloaks - then circled the camp to find a way to contact Masema while staying safely away from Perrin. Slayer, patrolling the Waygates, saw that the tell-tale object he would have placed at the gate had been moved and released his Hounds.

When the Hounds reached the camp, half followed Fain, the other half circled the camp the other way. When they met, they had Fain trapped. Obviously, Slayer did not kill Fain and let the Hounds feast. Studying his prey, he had realized how Fain could help him have enough Trollocs killed to reduce the force available for the planned attack on Caemlyn: Sheriam had helpt heal Mat, Alviarin had seen Fain steal the knife and Verin knew about Fain and Machin Shin, a little tidbit she had no reason to withhold from her supposed masters.

Rand resting in Algarin's manor provided the perfect opportunity. He was already under a death sentence for leaving the court to help Owen, yet he didn't even bother to use an assumed name.

But it is not much of a stretch to assume Thom knew Luc, that Luc's unpleasant brother-in-law Taringail was a darkfriend, and that Luc, once he was trusted with access to the Shadow archives, found out and killed him. Thom knows. Sarevok Hero of the Horn. November Even those who are my mortal enemies. Rand: If stupidity is genetic. Now prepare to don your yellow party hat of war, and attack Illian with the Tairens, who use the code name: 'The People of the Dragon.

Moiraine: What the hell would you know about it? Nynaeve: Now pack away our nice dresses. We like to look our best when getting captured. She is my best friend. Elayne is her best friend. You hurt Elayne. I hate you. I also love you. Men are confusing. Aviendha: Yes. And gossip. Faile: You may follow us, like a lost puppy. How much I humiliate you is a measure of how much I love you. Now excuse me, I must use our time-tested technique: Couladin, you have broken the peace of Rhuidean.

Do not do it again. Seanna: Yes, movies. Now, come, chew on some gravel. Run along, Thom and Juilin. We run the operation here. Go for it. Rand: Then join us, by all means. I laugh for no reason. You see, a blacksmith may pick up a rock, but only if a roofmistress has not picked it up first. If she has picked up the rock first, then the blacksmith must run five laps around her while tapping his head.

Oh, we laughed for days. He thought it was hilarious. Want some gravel, I mean, Jabba? Verin: Interesting. Now I must help the Great Lord destroy the world. I really should kill you. Moghedien: Yes, you should. But maybe you should talk to me for a while.

You could make my eyes bulge with some threats. Or you could watch my mouth try to work. I never really take the time to get to know my enemies. Fain: cock-a-doodle-doo! Pedron Niall: Good plan. First we cock-a-doodle. He is tanned with dark hair and blue eyes which appear black in tel'aran'rhiod.

When Malkier was overrun by Trollocs , Isam was one of the few Malkieri to escape. His mother Breyan Mandragoran fled with him into the blight, but they were attacked by Trollocs. Isam survived this encounter and as a child, grew up in the Town. There he lived a very dangerous life, where each day was a struggle to survive surrounded by Samma N'Sei and Myrddraal. He learned to kill very early and this upbringing is what has honed him into the hunter he is today.

It is speculated by many fans that this is where Luc and Isam met. Somehow, both of them survived in the Blight. They met in the Mountains of Dhoom and merged into something new. After Tigraine died giving birth to Rand, Janduin could not forgive himself and went into the blight hunting Trollocs and Myrddraal. It was said he was killed by a man who looked like Tigraine, possibly Slayer in the Luc Mantear form.

Slayer has many abilities. He can appear in both forms in the world of flesh, but he is also a master of the World of Dreams and can change easily there as well.

In fact it is in Tel'aran'rhiod that Slayer was given his name by the wolves, due to his propensity for killing their number on sight.

He often appears as Luc in the waking world, and Isam in Tel'aran'rhiod , but there are exceptions. He can also enter the Tower of Ghenjei. It seems that both Luc and Isam's personalities have survived intact, and that Luc is just as evil as Isam.

In fact, they seem to get along with each other. Perrin first encounters Slayer in the Wolf Dream. He finds that Slayer killed a wolf and chases him to the Tower of Ghenjei. Perrin meets Lord Luc in the Two Rivers. He calls himself a Hunter of the Horn , trying to help the Two Rivers people. He constantly undermines Perrin's orders. He arranges a trap for Perrin's group that is hunting Trollocs.

In the waking world Luc also has been wounded and flees from Emond's Field. He continued hunting Ordeith , and later tried to kill Rand and Min Farshaw.